Boring guest: Вованыч_1977 пишет: Насколько я в курсе - точно Спасибо. Исходя из этого можно с большой долей уверенности утверждать, что время снимка начало лета 1918.
Zmey: Вованыч_1977 пишет: Если это точно Гавриил /////////// Насколько я в курсе - точно Boring guest пишет: Исходя из этого можно с большой долей уверенности утверждать, что время снимка начало лета 1918 Мужчины, я смотрю, вы в мое отсутствие продолжали ))) На секунду допуская, что на фото не вторая декада апреля 1918, обращаю внимание на выдержки из следующего документа: Временное боевое расписание флота Балтийского моря на 1918г. 16 мая 1918 г. ////////// МОРСКИЕ СИЛЫ НЕВЫ И ЛАДОЖСКОГО ОЗЕРА I. Минная дивизия //////// 3й дивизион эскадренных миноносцев: «Свобода» «Автроил» «Изяслав» «Гавриил» За Расписание ... - спасибо добрым людям с Кортика
Boring guest: objasnu svoju tochku zrenia. Ledovyu perehod balt flota byl v aprele 1918. pogoda byla dazhe ne vesennya. Zdesna foto moryaki sisdyat nalegke odetyue. Gavriil iz helsinki prishol v Piter, a zatem ushol v Kronshtadt (vesnoi). V Piter on vnov pereshol v nachale Ijyuna dlya remonta. Tak chto zachislili to ego v mae, chto verno, no na foto on taki letom. Izvinite, no kirilici na klave net.
Antoine: Коллеги! Есть ли у вас версии по идентификации латиноамериканских дредноутов? Аргентинцы: 1) 2) 3) Бразилец: 4)
Боярин: Antoine пишет: Аргентинцы: Переворошил кучу материала, результат нулевой. Но на интуитивном уровне это MORENO.
Манас: Боярин пишет: Переворошил кучу материала, результат нулевой. Но на интуитивном уровне это MORENO. Старого волка чутье не подвело, однако ;) Еще в 2012-м задался этим вопросом. Получается, что после модернизации у "Морено" за шельфом иллюминаторы на правой раковине начинаются 1-2 а затем все остальные, а у "Ривадавии" 1-1-1-1. Беда в том, что последней хороших снимков с правого борта практически нет. А так, да, очень два похожих систершипа, факт.
Боярин: Antoine пишет: Бразилец: Информация по этой ссылке: http://www.clydemaritime.co.uk/Floating%20Dock В доке Minas Geraes.
Tanaka: Antoine пишет: Коллеги! Есть ли у вас версии по идентификации латиноамериканских дредноутов? Второе фото,на котором много горячих мачос в белых фуражках-это точно "Морено".Это фото достаточно хорошо известно...
Boring guest: Boring guest пишет: Вованыч_1977 пишет: цитата: Это кто-то из крейсеров типа D второй серии (с т.н. "траулерным" носом). И 1917 г. тогда не подходит Н-да. Получается подпись под фото неверная по году. Cпасибо. Вектор поиска задан. Будем добивать. Пока определился только номер ПЛ - это L.4. КРоме того, судя по внешнему виду КРЛ, он скорее всего проходит ремонт\модернизацию, т.е. на снимке он уже в строю. Осталось выяснить где D-шки с траулерным носом их проходили. не исключено, что это какой то брит. "арсенал".
Antoine: Коллеги! Большое спасибо за помощь с латиноамериканцами.
Вованыч_1977: Вопрос простой - надо опознать . Вроде как один из первых боевых кораблей ВМС Израиля. Но не факт. Внешне мелькают черты переделанных старых "хантов" и "флауэров" (ещё тех, периода Великой войны), но ИМХО всё же не они - нет 100% совпадения по отдельным элементам. Ещё вариант - кто-то из быв. амеровских кораблей БОХР (наблюдаются ледокольные образования?). Но тоже - только предположение. В общем, простор для мыслей
Вованыч_1977: Вованыч_1977 пишет: надо опознатьЕщё вариант - кто-то из быв. амеровских кораблей БОХР (наблюдаются ледокольные образования?). Всё, нашёл! Как и предполагал - это "Eilat", быв. куттер амеровской БОХР WPG-49 "Northland", передан Израилю в 1948 г., став одним из первых боевых кораблей молодого флота. Позже переклассифицирован в учебный корабль. В 1955 г. переименован в "Matzpen" (имя "Eilat" перешло к ставшему позже известным эсминцу - быв. британскому "Zealous"). Сдан на слом в 1961 г. WPG-49 Northland под парусами
Боярин: Boring guest пишет: Пока определился только номер ПЛ - это L.4. Это как Вы определились? По какому признаку? Под фотографией есть подпись? Или Вы номер рассмотрели?
Boring guest: Боярин пишет: Это как Вы определились? Это так я определился! Ну, а если серьезно, то определил № по фото. Но исходил и из того, что ПЛ этого типа с №№ 40-... в строй не вводились. Посчитал, что L.4 единственно возможный в этом случае вариант. А что есть иные предлоложения?
Боярин: Boring guest пишет: Посчитал, что L.4 единственно возможный в этом случае вариант. А что есть иные предлоложения? Просмотрев фотографии крейсеров этого типа, выделил два крейсера со сходными деталями: Despatch и Diomede. Правда на Diomede необычный щит-башня на носовом 152-мм орудии. Информация к размышлению HMS Despatch 24th September 1919 - Launched 4th June 1927 - At Woosung 3rd March 1928 - Flagship of Admiral Sir Walter H. Cowan 3rd March 1928 - Arrived Valparaiso 10th March 1928 - Sailed Valparaiso 15th September 1930 - Flagship of Vice-Admiral Vernon Haggard 15th September 1930 - Sailed San Francisco 17th September 1930 - Arrived San Diego 22nd September 1930 - Sailed San Diego 7th January 1932 - Sailed Malta 1st October 1932 - Paid Off, The Nore 1st October 1932 - Cmdr. H. L. I. Kirkpatrick in Command 10th February 1933 - Sailed Portsmouth for Gibraltar 30th March 1933 - Arrived Rapallo 12th April 1933 - Arrived San Remo 14th April 1933 - Arrived San Remo 24th April 1933 - Sailed San Remo 27th April 1933 - Arrived Malta 27th June 1933 - Sailed Malta 29th June 1933 - Arrived Corfu 4th July 1933 - Arrived Valona Bay 4th July 1933 - Sailed Corfu 10th July 1933 - Sailed Valona Bay 11th July 1933 - Arrived Hvar 20th July 1933 - Sailed Hvar 21st July 1933 - Arrived Venice 29th July 1933 - Sailed Venice 30th July 1933 - Sailed Venice for Jelsa 31st July 1933 - Arrived Jelsa 31st July 1933 - Arrived Jelsa 5th August 1933 - Sailed Jelsa 5th August 1933 - Arrived Kotor 15th August 1933 - Sailed Kotor 17th August 1933 - Arrived Malta 2nd September 1933 - Arrived Nauplia 9th September 1933 - Sailed Nauplia 12th October 1933 - Arrived Navarin 21st October 1933 - Sailed Navarin 23rd October 1933 - Arrived Malta 10th January 1934 - Arrived Tunis 10th January 1934 - Sailed Malta for short winter cruise 25th January 1934 - Arrived Malta 3rd March 1934 - Sailed Malta for Gibraltar 23rd March 1934 - Sailed Gibraltar 5th April 1934 - Capt. W.L. Jackson in Command 5th April 1934 - Sailed Famagusta for Port Said 10th April 1934 - Arrived Golfe Juan 24th April 1934 - Sailed Golfe Juan for Malta 26th April 1934 - Sailed Port Said 27th April 1934 - Arrived Haifa 10th May 1934 - Sailed Haifa 14th May 1934 - Arrived Malta 27th June 1934 - Sailed Malta for Summer Cruise 9th July 1934 - Arrived Itea 15th August 1934 - Arrived Malta 1st September 1934 - Arrived Rab 8th October 1934 - Sailed Port Said for Famagusta 18th October 1934 - Sailed Famagusta for Haifa 19th October 1934 - Arrived Haifa 22nd March 1935 - Arrived Famagusta 1st April 1935 - Sailed Famagusta for Kyrenia 2nd April 1935 - Arrived Limasol 6th April 1935 - Arrived Port Said 27th April 1935 - Arrived Haifa 26th May 1935 - Sailed Malta 3rd April 1936 - Sailed Malta for Haifa 6th April 1936 - Arrived Haifa 15th April 1936 - Arrived Jaffa 17th April 1936 - Arrived Haifa 23rd October 1936 - Arrived Tangier 6th March 1937 - Arrived Gibraltar 25th March 1937 - Arrived Malta 17th April 1937 - At Malta 21st May 1937 - Arrived Tangier 10th June 1937 - Arrived Gibraltar 19th June 1937 - Arrived Malta 9th October 1937 - Sailed Valencia for Barcelona 23rd October 1937 - Sailed Valencia for Barcelona 25th October 1937 - Arrived Marseilles January 1938 - Reserve Fleet, UK 9th August 1939 - Attended Review of the British Reserve Fleet 25th August 1939 - Sailed Plymouth for Gibraltar 29th August 1939 - Arrived Gibraltar 2nd September 1939 - Sailed Gibraltar with convoy AB.1 for the Cape 2nd September 1939 - 9th Cruiser Squadron, South Atlantic Command, Freetown 2nd September 1939 - Sailed Gibraltar for Freetown 3rd October 1939 - Sailed Freetown for South America 15th October 1939 - Arrived at Bermuda for docking. 20th October 1939 - Sailed Bermuda 26th October 1939 - Arrived at Kingston 29th October 1939 - Sailed Kingston 1st November 1939 - Entered the Pacific through the Panama Canal 1st November 1939 - Sailed Panama on patrol 17th November 1939 - Arrived at Callao, Peru 5th December 1939 - Captured German steamer Dusseldorf off Punta Caldera, Chile 29th February 1940 - Arrived Kingston, Jamaica 1st March 1940 - Intercepted German steamer Troja 27th November 1940 - Force H 27th November 1940 - Battle Of Cape Spartivento, Sardinia 1946 - Broken up HMS Diomede 29th April 1919 - Launched 1925 - Transferred to New Zealand Division 3rd February 1931 - Sailed Auckland to Hawkes Bay ro assist in Earthquake 29th March 1932 - Arrived Picton 5th April 1932 - Arrived Powerful Bay 1st October 1932 - Cmdr. V. A. C. Crutchley, VC, DSO in Command 1st October 1932 - New Zealand Station 1st October 1932 - Flagship. Captain F. B. Watson, DSO, Commodore 2nd Class 27th February 1933 - Arrived Whangatoa 10th March 1933 - Arrived Wellington 1st April 1933 - Arrived Wellington 5th April 1933 - Arrived Pago Pago 11th April 1933 - Sailed Auckland 11th April 1933 - Flagship of Commodore F. Burges Watson 15th April 1933 - Arrived Nukualofa 15th April 1933 - Arrived Nukualofa 17th April 1933 - Sailed Nukualofa 18th April 1933 - Arrived Vavua 18th April 1933 - Arrived Vavua 19th April 1933 - Sailed Vavua 19th April 1933 - Arrived Apia 21st April 1933 - Arrived Apia 24th April 1933 - Sailed Apia for Pago Pago 24th April 1933 - Capt. V.A.C. Crutchley in Commanf 24th April 1933 - Flagship of Commodore F. Burgess Watson 24th April 1933 - Sailed Apia 24th April 1933 - Arrived and sailed Apia 27th April 1933 - Arrived Rarotonga 29th April 1933 - Sailed Rarotonga 5th May 1933 - Arrived Auckland 4th November 1933 - Sailed Dunedin for Auckland 7th December 1933 - Arrived Auckland 5th February 1934 - Arrived Russell 7th February 1934 - Arrived Hauraki 15th February 1934 - Arrived Russell 25th February 1934 - Arrived Napier 2nd March 1934 - Arrived Wellington 9th April 1934 - Arrived Timaru 23rd April 1934 - Arrived Wellington 24th April 1934 - Sailed Wellington for Auckland 18th June 1934 - Capt. C.M. Graham in Command 18th June 1934 - Sailed Auckland 20th June 1934 - Arrived Norfolk Island 21st June 1934 - Sailed Norfolk Isalnd 23rd June 1934 - Arrived Vila 27th June 1934 - Sailed Vila 27th June 1934 - Arrived Hog Harbour 2nd July 1934 - Sailed Hog Harbour 8th July 1934 - Arrived Hog Harbour 1st August 1934 - Arrived Nukualofa 10th August 1934 - Arrived Auckland 21st September 1934 - Arrived Sydney 6th October 1934 - Sailed Sydney for Hobart 18th October 1934 - Arrived Melbourne 12th December 1934 - Sailed Auckland for Wellington 15th December 1934 - Arrived Wellington 22nd December 1934 - Arrived Auckland 29th July 1935 - Arrived Puka Puka 30th July 1935 - Arrived Pago Pago 12th August 1935 - Arrived Suva 1936 - Returned to Royal Navy 2nd March 1936 - Arrived Malta 31st March 1936 - Paid off at Chatham and recommissioned 16th March 1937 - Sailed Port Said for Aden 26th March 1937 - Arrived Colombo 14th April 1937 - Sailed Hong Kong for Wusung 22nd April 1937 - Arrived Hankow 8th May 1937 - Sailed Suez 25th May 1937 - Arrived Colombo 25th May 1937 - Capt. A.R. Halfhide in Command 28th May 1937 - Sailed Colombo for Aden 28th May 1937 - Sailed Colombo 3rd June 1937 - Arrived and sailed Aden 3rd June 1937 - Arrived and sailed Aden 7th June 1937 - Arrived Suez 8th June 1937 - Arrived and sailed Port Said 11th June 1937 - Arrived Malta 14th June 1937 - Sailed Malta for Plymouth 14th June 1937 - Sailed Malta 20th June 1937 - Arrived and sailed Plymouth 20th June 1937 - Arrived Portsmouth 20th June 1937 - Arrived Portsmouth and sailed for Sheerness 21st June 1937 - Arrived Sheerness January 1938 - Reserve Fleet, UK 28th March 1938 - Arrived Plymouth 9th August 1939 - Attended Review of the British Reserve Fleet 26th August 1939 - Arrived at Scapa Flow from the Reserve Fleet 31st August 1939 - Sailed Scapa Flow. Deployed in the North Sea between the Orkneys and Norway. 3rd September 1939 - 7th Cruiser Squadron Home Fleet, Scapa Flow 6th September 1939 - Arrived Scapa Flow 30th September 1939 - Sailed Scapa Flow on Northern Patrol between the Orkneys and the Faroes 10th October 1939 - Sailed Scapa Flow on Northern Patrol duties 19th October 1939 - Sailed Sullom Voe for Northern Patrol 21st October 1939 - Sailed Sullom Voe 21st October 1939 - Sailed Sullom Voe for Northern Patrol between Shetlands and Faroes 24th October 1939 - Arrived Sullom Voe for refuelling 25th October 1939 - Arrived Sullom Voe 27th October 1939 - Sailed Sullom Voe for Northern Patrol duties 29th October 1939 - On Northern Patrol duties between the Faroes and Iceland 2nd November 1939 - Between the Faroes and Iceland 3rd November 1939 - Arrived Sullom Voe 3rd November 1939 - Arrived Sullom Voe 8th November 1939 - Sailed Sullom Voe on Northern Patrol duties 11th November 1939 - Escorting Swedish steamer Drottningholm towards Kirkwall 15th November 1939 - Arrived Loch Ewe with weather damage 17th November 1939 - Sailed Loch Ewe on Northern Patrol duties 21st November 1939 - Arrived Loch Ewe 23rd November 1939 - Took station off North Rona to patrol the approaches to the Fair Island Channel 25th November 1939 - Positioned off Utvaer, Norway, to intercept German battlecruisers 25th November 1939 - Sailed Loch Ewe on Northern Patrol duties 1st December 1939 - Arrived Loch Ewe 1st December 1939 - Arrived Loch Ewe 2nd December 1939 - Arrived Loch Ewe 8th December 1939 - Sailed Loch Ewe for Northern Patrol 12th December 1939 - On Northern Patrol 10 miles 180° from Myggenoes Light in the Faroes 15th December 1939 - Off the Faroes 16th December 1939 - Arrived Scapa Flow via Loch Ewe 20th December 1939 - Refitting at Plymouth 10th January 1940 - Refitting conpleted at Plymouth 13th January 1940 - Sailed Plymouth for Rosyth 16th January 1940 - Sailed Scapa Flow on patrol 25th January 1940 - Sailed Scapa Flow for Plymouth 30th January 1940 - Arrived Plymouth. Later sailed to join the 8th Cruiser Squadron in the North America and West Indies Station 6th February 1940 - Sailed Plymouth for Bermuda 29th February 1940 - Sailed Kingston, Jamaica for duty in the Pacific 1946 - Broken up ---------HMS L4 należał do 1. serii brytyjskich okrętów podwodnych typu 'L', zbudowanych w stoczni Vickers w Barrow-in-Furness. Budowę jago rozpoczęto 21 czerwca 1916, zaś wodowanie miało miejsce 17 listopada 1917 roku. Oficjalny koniec budowy nastąpił z dniem 26 lutego 1918. ---------Złomowany w 1934 roku w Grays (Essex, Wielka Brytania). Do miejsca złomowania dotarł 24 lutego 1934.